black/white with gray

thank you, Wendy, for your thoughts! really appreciate them ...

isn't this edifying on whichever side? to think through what we've thought, trying to understand and uncover the foundations or premises?

first, Jesus said that he only does what the Father tells him to do and we are to imitate God as dearly loved children, thus i am not admonishing anyone to do other than what our Father tells him or her to do. i think that God can mightily use someone doing what he or she thinks God is telling him or her to do even if later, upon reflection, God helps them to reflect differently. for example, for the first 4 years of my trying to follow Jesus, i regarded God as a genie in a bottle. now, if i encountered my past self, i would label me a heretic! (which also teaches me to extend grace to others as growth and learning to imitate Jesus is a process.)

one response i have is that with jon and i, we noticed that many talk about children as though they're cars or homes, requiring thorough consideration and budget analysis. but God's Word never regards children in monetary terms, nor are they like cars or homes in that one can acquire these and not know whether they are truly from the Lord, but, with children, there is not a single instance noted in the Word of a living thing having been created by one other than God. God alone creates. (Satan distorts.) the implications of this are that no person is a mistake, whereas there are cars and homes (and jobs and decisions to move and purchases and words spoken) that could very well be "mistakes" in that it was not God's desire that we choose those states (of being) or actions. children are not among these sorts of choices.

example of worldly wisdom pervading church (in my opinion!!!)
a gal to whom i'm close who knows and loves Jesus told me in response to "God alone creates" that "Yes, but if a woman has 14 children, that's not exactly wise." my return question is "says who?" here,

God alone creates
a woman has 14 created children
"that is unwise"
God is unwise

because, otherwise, who is the "that" in "that is unwise?" the woman did not create the children. surely, there are means, but she herself nor the man himself did not create them.

but because we are under the law of liberty (James), i'll put gray frosting on our black/white cake:
before jon and i wed, we prayed through our thoughts on timing of children and jon determined (and i supported) that we should pay off our bad debt before children ie debt on objects that are decreasing in worth like our car and credit card debt. i will say that even with this, i always felt unsure but jon felt led by God and it wasn't opposed to the Bible (but rather supported throughout Proverbs and elsewhere), thus i followed him.

i will post later about ensuing questions that this post begs.

ode to trusting God, and not time nor absence of children, to establish our marriage

most encouraged jon and i to use birth control. actually, all did except for one couple that has mentored us.

most used reasonings comparable to "but you should establish your marriage first." initially, this seemed sensible. but after thinking, praying and seeking a range of council, it occurred to us - where are those reasonings grounded? the Bible? I asked a dear friend and mentor whether those words are used anywhere in the words of the Bible. she thought, then responded "no." then, the seeming source was the world. wisdom of the world that doesn't contradict the Bible could maybe ground our reasons for using birth control, but it seemed like the encouragement to use birth control was cloaked in a prepared phrase but that the actual advice they were giving was "children are a burden," "once you have them, fun and freedom ends," "if you don't wait for awhile on the front end, your marriage is not and/or cannot be established." there is a possibility that we misunderstood dozens of people, but, in the end, our consciences weren't clear following this line of wisdom.

most encouraged us to use birth control; we think God is encouraging the opposite. many more thoughts/wonderings about this ...